05/26/24 - Jonathan Gonzales, Kapi'olani A. Laronal
What makes you such a threat? We choose the right to be who we are. We know the difference between the reality of freedom and the illusion of freedom. There's a way to live with Earth and a way not to live with Earth. We choose the way of Earth. It's about power.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Grandfather, I want you to look this way and look at us and know that we are your children, we're small, and that we are people, we live, and we suffer. Grandfather, look this way and pity us all That, today, we greet you and all of our relatives, the the people in the studio, the people in this area. And I shake everyone's hands with a good heart, and it's good for all of us to be here. And we look to the forever ones first, the elders of the land that was always here. And we acknowledge that relationship with all and the life giving force of the sun as we wake up every morning to that relation with the sun.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And, I'm here. I'm here to in a humble way for all the relations, and, I honor you in this circle of life with me. I'm grateful for this opportunity to acknowledge you, so I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna do that, right now with some water, and I want to invite, Kapiolani, Larinal, and, Jonathan Gonzales, a couple of friends, indigenous friends. And we are going to honor water in this way, but I'm gonna do it this way this time.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Is I thank you to creation. I thank you for the ultimate gift of life. Thank you to the mineral nation that has built and maintained my bones and all foundations of life experience. And thank you to the plant nation for supporting my organs, my organs and body, and giving me healing herbs for sickness. Thank you to the animal nation who offers loyal companionship in this walk of life, and to the human nation encountered along my path of the sacred wheel of earth earthly life, I thank you.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And to the spirit nation that give that guides me invisibly through the ups and downs of life and for carrying the torch of life, light through the ages. I thank you. And to the winds to the four winds of change and growth, I thank you. You are my relations, my relatives, without whom I would not live. We are in the circle of life, coexisting, codependent, and cocreating our destiny.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:1 is no more important than the other, And one nation evolving from the other, and yet each is dependent upon 1 above and the one below. As all of us are becoming earth. All of us are becoming mystery. And for this, we thank you for this life. And thank you, Jonathan and Kapiolani.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Let's have this water. This is. This is water. We give it honor that. Alright.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:I want to begin this section with something that's recorded, and, it's going to introduce introduce itself. It's a recording of times I spent out in, with the students earlier as part of the month. We're gonna play that right now. And with Karen's little button over there, we're gonna get going, and we'll be back after that in 10 minutes or so. Again, stay with us.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:This is First Voices Radio. Many of you may not know, and some do, that I am a faculty at The New School University in New York City, Parsons School of Design, a mixture of undergrad and postgrad students taking a course in becoming Earth, facilitated by Hala Malak and myself for the spring semester 2024. The voices converged in upstate New York in the Catskill State Park. And after spending a day, we talked about silence. I wanted to know what the students thought, but all were in school in the city of New York, surrounded by woods, mountains, rivers, and no connection, no in range for cell phones.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Basically, they were out of touch, out of range, and here is their thoughts, and I wanted to bring it to you. The first voice is to kinda let you know what I'm doing and what I'm doing with students and working with nature, keeping that alive in the hearts and the minds of another generation. Maybe they'll remember Earth in a good way also, of becoming Earth.
Narrator:Hi. I'm Mitchell. Will the silence make me echo eternally within myself, reverberate endlessly, swallowed into some abyss where it is me, only me, naked and alone, so lonely. Please fill my head with noise, any noise. Smoke something, anything.
Narrator:To feel something, anything, to feel nothing, numb out and dumb out TV, radio, video, audio, scrolling endlessly to fill the void in order to avoid to avoid what exactly? Look away. Look away. Don't look away. Try to stay here for a second, to stay quiet, to open, to listen to nothing, and to everything.
Leandra Shipps:My name's Leandra Shipps. I'm gonna start out with the words silent, which is silence. But the word silent, if you rearrange the letters, spells listen. In silence, it is listening mode, AKA the receptive mode. Although this indicates a quiet and no sound mode, the duality encompasses the inner sounds and messages of spirit.
Leandra Shipps:When I silence myself, I can hear the communication of spirit more clearly. You could say meditation is analogous to the process of being silent. We quiet our outer voice and mind chatter to wait and hear any messages the divine wants to give. It's like being a hollow bone or instrument to be played by the breath of spirit. As we as we breathe, the prana life source sounds can play through us and give us a song.
Leandra Shipps:In most of my life, I have been silent. But now spirit is asking me to speak these messages they have given me in my silence and silent ear.
Gabriela Fusser:Silence. She is always here. She's always listening. She's always happening. She opens doors that can't be closed.
Gabriela Fusser:She is golden like the sun's hands that reach out and tuck the loose strands of hair behind our ears. She is also silver, like the lining of a cloud on a stormy day. Reflecting back what we always knew, reflecting back something we didn't know we knew. She is laying in the woods listening to the wind whispering their secrets. The trees, branches and trunks aching, splitting, growing.
Gabriela Fusser:The water gurgling and giggling. The ants laughing. Gabriela Fusser.
Juniper:Hello. My name is Juniper. This is to silence. Silence I'm sorry I push you away sometimes, or that I try to fill you up with busyness. Silence.
Juniper:Sometimes when I try to find you, you evade me. The running, running, running of my brain is too loud for you. But sometimes you sneak in from the edges, comfortable and gently flowing. You make rhythm with my breath, my breath alongside other breaths, my breath alongside the breath of the elements, growing into the ground, observant, not an emptiness, but a fullness, an immense satisfaction with what is.
Soraya:Soraya, the first thoughts that came are powerful and passive, which seem as though they are opposites. But silence has direction, usually intention. Although, perhaps without awareness, silence speaks. And with volume, you hear air and water. You hear the leaves and the green of the earth under your feet. The touch of a star on my cheek erupted into dust, now just reaching us. The light reverberates on my eardrum.
Cammy:My name is Cammy. I kind of struggled to write a lot about my relationship with silence because I think silence is kind of my way of communicating. And I started to think about my life, like, growing up and as a child. I was always told that I was an introvert and I was always really quiet and I never talked. And I
Cammy:think that kind of has always carried out with me through my life and it definitely has changed, like, my perspective and had an effect on who I am today. So I'll read a little bit of what I wrote.
Cammy:For me, silence is welcoming. It envelopes me and feels everlasting. Silence is my reset button. It fills me with peace and allows me to breathe. I don't feel alone in silence, but everything feels still.
Cammy:Silence is freeing.
Alessandra:Hey. I'm Alessandra. I wrote about sort of a drastic shift I recently had in my relationship to silence. I was silent for 20 years listening to others. They grew louder and I grew quieter.
Alessandra:I broke the silence. Eventually, I exploded. I was loud and bashful. I was destructive, but it felt better than the silence. It was the false sense of silence that I loved, a band aid of silence, Taking advantage of anything I could to aid in silence.
Alessandra:It wasn't real, but it felt like it. It felt loud and frail. Words were hard to come by when I was loud. Now I have learned and am always learning what silence truly is. I've been learning for the past 7 months.
Alessandra:I've tried hard to carve out silence where there was none. And I've been practicing real silence. Silence that is not dependent. In silence, I grow, and I can pray, and I can finally listen. I learned the most in my silence.
Alessandra:My teachers feel loud and prominent, and I feel heard, and I feel quiet and very strong.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Jonathan Gonzalez, silence is not what I think of it. It's what it is. It's never quiet which I wanna distinguish from silence. It's more like peace. It's more like a flow of energy.
Jonathan Gonzalez:It's a lot like this fire. Something is always happening. But what's missing is what society has told me that is supposed to distract me or entertain me. I'm grateful for the opportunity to think and hear other people's thoughts about silence.
Unidentified:Because I'm I'm not, like I I want you to have the voice of the generation. Silence. A breath, a breath, a heartbeat, organs vibrating. Silence. In the sea, floating in the water with sunrays kissing my face.
Unidentified:Waves cooling my body. Silence. The first snow. Flakes whispering on my nose, melting on my tongue. Fluttering, fluttering. Silence. That moment when the sun fully disappears and darkness takes over. Giving the moon the stage to shine. Silence. A bird symphony sinking to the cords of my heart. Blades of grass swaying in the wind. Silence anywhere but my racing thoughts, my caged words, all distractions. From the language of our mother, mother earth, silence. Alaa Abdul Marak. Thank you.
Music:I made a few new friends from different threads. We've all moved off, wound up in a city same. And
Music:they sure talk a mess of what beer is best and how their hometowns had anybody else's be. So I had to do what I did and took him to the bridge way on up and deep in toothpond. Soon as we crossed that county line so I could walk this road with my Yeah. I was growing up doing the same stuff that our folks were doing. They were creeps and they're 16.
Music:Is saying about everything. Things in life are bound to change, but I know of to still stay the same. Well, Where the songs that grandpa used to sing, these memories, they always bring me back home, where a lab and an old coonhound can sleep sound, right there where the red fern grows. Well, I know this town like the back of my hand still know where every wood trail we ran in every good spot on the rim. Water's
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Alright. Thank you for joining us here on First Voices Radio. My name is Tioka Sitten, ghost tours, and for joining us with that little water and the the little, recording clip of students out in, from New School in the city coming up north. And I wanna introduce the in studio guests here. We've had them on before.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Friends, I could say, long time friends now. I think it's after a year or 2 we could say that Kapi'olani a Laronal who is a descendant of the haida eagle clan Skwa s g w a a, Skwa, Skwa, Kidani, people of the tall grass, and Tsimshian, native Hawaiian and Filipino. Kapiolani's experiences working with native communities on ocean and land restoration projects, cultural preservation, and protocols have significantly that was a hard word for me. Why? Because I can't read it.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:That's why. Significantly shaped her academic and professional life. She's an educator, athlete, life coach, and consultant. Her work specializes in indigenous and First Nations community centered partnerships. Our other guests here, Jonathan Gonzalez was born in Tuxtapec, Oaxaca, Mexico and grew up in Southern California and spent the last 12 years, 13 maybe now, learning earth living skills, ancestral ceremonial ways with teachers and elders combined with participating in indigenous earth based ceremonies along with a quest to connect more deeply with his ancestral lineage, which is indigenous Taino from Puerto Rico and Genanteco from Mexico and African.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So I'd like to welcome you both. It's always an honor to hear you, see you, and breathe the same air before you leave the area once again.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Good to be here.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Yeah. Yeah. Always good to be here. I'm a big fan of the show. Yeah.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Biggest fan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just an honor to sit here with you both and, to get back into the conversation.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Mhmm.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So, you know, we were talking earlier about silence and so were the students, from the new school. And they said a lot of things, but we also had our small little discussion before silence. And, what does that mean? And Jonathan and, Kapiolani, you, you were talking about layers, how it's different held in differently in cultures. So, you know, let's just talk about the layers, and we'll go to the cultural aspect of it.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Yeah. I was I was thinking about this, just this thought about silence and what I believe that we're looking at when we, when we talk about silence is just a one kind of layer of it. And this is a layer of silence within our mind, within our thoughts, the the mental space of silence. But it's it's coming to my understanding or just as the more I think about that, this is a process. This is a ever evolving process that is of silencing.
Jonathan Gonzalez:So moving through the different layers of of the silence that we encounter from the mental and to the physical and eventually, maybe the spiritual realm, possibly more beyond that, dimensionally speaking. Maybe avoid. But it's it's a energy. It's a movement. Just like life is.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Like, the river is flowing while we're flowing through this this, this movement into silence. And, there's there's been this silent scene of voices, of native voices, of indigenous voices. And so this when when we talk about silence in this way, I'd like to take it back away from what's, society has done to our voices to quiet us. So I'm I'm putting it in a in a in a space of this is important for us. This is power for for us.
Jonathan Gonzalez:This is power for mother Earth, that that space of silence.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Yeah. I think that, thank you, Johnny. I think I think that when we there was a student that spoke about silence from a place of intention. Right? There's an intention behind behind that.
Cammy:And then
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:there was also a student who who spoke about their introvertedness. Right? That that was a a a safe place for them, or is that that's where they felt comfortable. I think when we talk about indigenous people and silence, it serves much more differently. We were talking about this earlier, Jonathan, where, the function of silence is, like you you said, there's always there are there's stuff happening, right, in silence.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:If we're we're saying prayers or if we're there's some sort of force. Right? Some energy. And that energy is coming from an intention. Almost always, it's serving to be in relationship with the land first.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:And then secondary to that, that that that relationship teaches us how to be, in silence also with others.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:No. Those are great thoughts. I I was thinking about how, you know, they I say they, what what the definition is of silent. It's lack of noise, complete absence of sound, abstaining from speech, avoidance of mentioning or discussing, or the state of standing still. And, Kapiolani, you you you touched on nature.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And I'm thinking, okay. So what happened when all of us, all of the all over the world, not just indigenous folks, spoke the same language with silence? And what was that oldest language? And it is tracking. And as you know, you've gone to tracking school.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:I grew up this way, and I couldn't identify the the footprints or the paw prints or the claw prints of what was on the ground or even in the water as you you know, Capri Lani being from the West Coast and the water cultures Mhmm. Is there are different signs out there that what was developed out of silence was also a sign language, and then verbal after that probably, or we don't know. But there there's something that rang true for me when you said silent scene. You know, silent scene, you said. Mhmm.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And it's just like, wait. That there's a 2 word prong in there, like silencing. So where I'm going with this is what what we think of silence as we speak this language is not what we feel where I'm from. The oldest language is tracking, and it's it's available everywhere, but the land is shrinking, and that language is disappearing. The tracts are less now of animals, and more so of humans, You know?
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So even in that, cultures of indigenous are disappearing Mhmm. Because we can you can find the tracks of, you know, someone stepping on a break, and there's a screech mark on a pavement or types of tires we use or whatever. That's all yes. It's coming from humans, but it's not as natural as it used to be. Mhmm.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So your thoughts.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Well, the you know, so I did go to a a tracking school, the tracker school. And when when we go into looking at tracks, instantly, the body knows that there's so much more that our head is not we haven't caught up in in the society. And the the the modernizing of of what this our society has done is taken tracking. Now we sell it back to people. It it feels it it feels like that's that's the space closing in on the the animals who were naturally making their tracks, the the indigenous people of of the world.
Jonathan Gonzalez:The space is closing in, and and there's a silencing that is happening to the indigenous voices or especially in these places related to nature, related to mother earth. So how is it that we're being silenced in these places that this is the way we grew up and this is the way many cultures still live. Mhmm. I've I've had the experience where I've been in these, in these schools and I've spoken about mother earth, and it's almost too much for people to take when you when you put mother earth in front, and you will speak from that perspective so much so that they'll want to silence me that they actually yelled out and said, quiet. That's enough for me Mhmm.
Jonathan Gonzalez:For speaking for mother Earth in these nature spaces, in these nature schools. So it it becomes a a real challenge for me to to look to these schools to have the answer because it feels like they're they're missing so much of the spiral of life. And I mentioned, when I when I see indigenous or feel indigenous cultures native cultures, living life, speaking in their in their native languages, remembering the original instructions. And then I see these now these nature schools almost kind of trying to fill in that space. It's that the feeling is that we've gone from culture to a cult Mhmm.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Because they are bypassing every other element that is part of culture that exists and that has existed for time immemorial.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jonathan Gonzalez:And that may be hard for some of even me to say it probably 10 years ago was hard to say and it's probably gonna be hard for people to hear that this feels cultish. If not, this is a cult because you don't have all the pieces. You don't have elders. You don't have the children. You don't have the, real relationship with plants and animals.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Mhmm. Well, k. We're gonna have to take a break. Kapiolani, hold your thoughts. We'll come back with you after this.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And there's a lot to say here about silence and even more. Alright. And welcome back to First Voices Radio. My name is Tiok Sanghorst. I'm sitting in the studio with Jonathan Gonzalez and Kapiolani Larenal.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And we're talking about silence, and I want to talk again to reintroduce the idea about the language, the oldest languages in the world. You know, of course, indigenous languages are that since that's where other so called civilized civilized languages come from or indigenous languages. And even, you know, the disconnection of how that started with civilization rather than cultural, rather than a cult, I would say. I thank that. Thank you for that, John.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So Capulani, your thoughts with with, what Jonathan said, plus the ideas of tracking being one of the first languages.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Well, earlier, you talked about how, you know, over time, that less and less of the tracking became or the original tracking, the original form of silence, became less visible because of modernization. And I think in the same way, kind of with what you talked about, Johnny, and your experience with these schools, is that we aren't able to to see the patterns. Right? That the original that tracks being the original silence meant that that we were able to observe patterns in the land, in the ground, also the weather, the changes in weather. And when you're not able to see those things, the original form of silence, it takes away our a a certain level of awareness in us.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Right? It it kind of also even a part of our intuition, right? That silence allows us to intuit things and to notice patterns more clearly within ourselves. And if if if we can't notice it, then how can we name it? How can we see it?
Jonathan Gonzalez:Well, when you bring intuition Mhmm. Into silence, We have something that's that that's this is a very special conversation that we're having. I just so grateful for it because this is the this is almost the language part of the language or at least helps create, right, the the language of tracking. Well, what's my what's what's what's what's the message that's coming through from me in this track about the the safety that I might be experiencing or the lack of safety? Who's hiding in the in, you know, is there is there a snake over there in the in the bush?
Jonathan Gonzalez:Right? Well, let my intuition guide me into this deeper silence so that I may be able to recognize the signs here and keep my family safe for the because because they need me. They need me to go out and and and do what I what I'm doing as as we need each member of our family. So Mhmm. It's it's the the intuition is deeply interwoven with the silence that we're talking about, not the silence that of silencing that we've experienced, but the silence of these layers into this, maybe the spiritual silence, the sacred silence.
Jonathan Gonzalez:That's where the intuition also feels at home.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Yeah. Versus the intellect. Right?
Jonathan Gonzalez:Right. Right.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Like, if if some people say when when we met in in the mainstream, when we're meditating, that we just have to silence our minds, silence your thoughts. But what is it really doing? Oh, I'm gonna come back to it as soon as I step out of yoga class. You know? There's a there's a different yeah.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:There's a whole new meaning to that type of silence. Right? Silence your mind. Silence your thoughts. You know, they always say, leave your problems at the door, like, when you walk into a classroom or something.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:That's so true, Ella. Yes. And and I'm thinking that this natural language of silence is, as you said, Kapiolani and Jonathan, it's it's, intricate. It's tied to it's woven into intuition. And as you said, observing patterns and the weather, and then you can go back to where indigenous folks all over the world, and I could say that, have been censored.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:But we were saying censoring, but you can start censoring with a c or with an s. You know, it's kind of a play on words there, but it's true. And so when I go back to that, yeah, but we we've censored and censoring. And now what I'm thinking about intuition, it it doesn't take me too far in the future or in the past. It's not guesswork.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:It's not rolling the dice or looking into crystal ball or the ticker tape coming off of Wall Street down dot whatever Nasdaq. Right? It's very different. It's not tied to economics or economics. It's a different a different it's tied to the earth.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Really what the true word for eco is about. And so who's carrying that language of value asset? Value added asset. Right? And when I think about how do we and where are we going with, you know, what we heard from the students here was what we talked about earlier was freedom of speech.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Right? That's how they're defining it. How noisy can you be within a system of function in that they're being censored with a c?
Jonathan Gonzalez:I was invited to sit with you and the students, and I'm grateful for that. And, we we sat around the fire and, we can I and we we spoke about this? We could feel the intuition of the fire and the land changing the DNA in real time of these young people. Right? Because they they come from a a world that's so loud.
Jonathan Gonzalez:New York City, there's so much going on, and we we we lit the fire in in an original way with friction, and they were just right down right down to earth, right down with, you know, with one another. And nobody was talking, but he's just tuning in to, to, you know, what was tuning into the fire. Mhmm. Tuning into being out there. And, you know, the sensor and the censoring that was that's happening and is happening now directly to those students with what they were experiencing, with the with protests and all of this.
Jonathan Gonzalez:So this was they were it was active. It was activated on them and they are now forced to hold up this this idea of, well, I have the freedom to do this Mhmm. But they're also upholding their responsibility. So that was really beautiful about what I experienced with being with those students.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Mhmm. Yeah. I think of the you know, as I work in higher education, and we hear we've hear been hearing this across very it's an overt, it's it's, very it's an overt form of overt or covert? Form of of power and control, right, to be able to limit what what students can and cannot say, limit what's being said or or shown in the media. And this has happened to Indigenous people for 100 and 100 of years.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:And I think when you look at censoring, what what I've always been curious about or or, observed within Indigenous communities in moments where we are being censored in what we what we say about, government relations and power and control, there has been an element where we do step back. Our leaders have stepped back. Right? Queen Lili'uokalani was was imprisoned in her own own home. Right?
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:And and censored. And yet, she used power in a very different way. She knew that the Hawaiians would unite. She knew that that by her being censored, it would not stop the Hawaiian people from fighting for our monarchy. And so in many ways, I think that silence can bring through if if we are censored, silence in many ways has served to empower, indigenous communities because we go back to, who we are and where we come from.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:There's there's an unspoken, unification, I think, that that happens when when we're we're censored.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Yeah. I love that. I love that you described the queen, and I thought immediately, yeah, they they they centered and basically she was in her own. Mhmm. But and she knew that she wasn't the only one carrying the message.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And that's why we think we'll we'll sequester 1 individual, and we'll talk about that one individual and make news out of it. In other words, if you're we have freedom of speech, and once you get freedom of speech, what are you talking about? What are you gonna say when you have freedom of speech? Right? Mhmm.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Where I think if I could describe the transition or transmitting of what you just said would be, it's not a business. It's not a right. It's more like a responsibility, and but it's not so much anthropocentric.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Exactly.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:I see you lighting up over there.
Jonathan Gonzalez:No. I I'm I'm with it. I'm I'm with what you're saying here because, we're we're we're a society or a civilization that's based on these rights. But we've we've we've neglected our responsibility to to one another, to mother earth, and we're we're continuing to do it. But when you put in intuition, when you bring back silence, when you bring when you become silence, when you go through if there are layers of silence and when you're silencing yourself, is that not the best opportunity to also deepen your listening?
Jonathan Gonzalez:Listen to the earth. When when we know that we're not the only ones carrying this this message, we're not the only ones carrying the seeds, then it's okay to to go in to the silence. It's it's actually probably maybe the most, grounded, I could say, that that we might feel after somebody says, that's enough. We're gonna put you we're gonna lock you up in your own home. Whatever it is, however we feel censored or silenced, it's it's actually the gift that we as as indigenous people can reach back in and say, oh, like, look at this gift that they've actually done, and they don't even know it.
Jonathan Gonzalez:They.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Well, I think of all the, you know, all the native leaders, right, who knew that things were coming. Right? When when land was being taken, there was a silence. Right? But it wasn't because, the leaders were submitting to anything.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:They were silent because they knew exactly what was gonna happen after all of of our resources were taken. Right? That so much more, and we can see it in today's world.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Yeah.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Right? They knew all of this would come. And there's at some point, silence invites us to step back and say, Well, I know, I know, I know deep within, because I've observed the patterns, of humans walking on the earth, of the changes in the, I don't know, life cycles of our salmon or our buffalo. There's something that I know that is coming that doesn't deserve to be named. It it it will come.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Not doesn't deserve to be named, but it it doesn't need to be named at this time. It will reveal it will reveal itself.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Wow. Just the intuition that you 2 are you're talking about the leaders that were back then that are here now, that are coming out with this message of the earth, where I have a western mind as well that but I included in my wider scoping world perspective of of being native is my I was saying my my my indigenous mind was my indigenous heart was saying to my western mind, earth will speak for you. Earth will always speak louder for you, and my Western mind is throwing doubt. Show me how that's going to be done. Prove it to me.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Right? So that eliminates intuition. If you have to prove something, where is intuition?
Jonathan Gonzalez:I'm talking about science there. The proof, the reductive reasoning there.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Another centering, another way to cut. Right? This is, yeah, this is a great little conversation. And, well, 1 student said powerful and passive at the same time. Mhmm.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Yeah. And that would that was that was great. Yeah. So we're winding down here. We got, like, maybe 5 minutes.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Any thoughts?
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Yeah. That that that powerful and passive really resonated with me too, when that student said that. And I think because in many ways, that silence can contain power, based on how how you intend to use it, based on what you know about what purpose that silence is gonna serve. Right? If if if silence is comes from a a, a place of fear versus a place of, like, peace, love, and acceptance.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Like, there's a there's a certain function that that can play.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Mhmm. Yeah. It's almost like a vibration that is shifted when it's, silence of fear versus when there's a silence of love or intuition or even just being with being with family, being with community because that's that's what I feel is love there. Understanding, acceptance, acknowledging.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Just one final thought. I think we can squeeze it in here. I spent time with some thought leaders a few days ago, and one of them brought to mind, Kapiolani, was, that they spent time with people in the northwest. And I find this true everywhere I go if you really get to know the indigenous peoples worldwide, especially in North and maybe South America, of course. The thing that they said, our language is one of presencing.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Without going on any further, what would that mean to you?
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:I think that, well, like what you always say. Right? Presencing, being, and living in verb form. Right? It it means that we we're we're constantly our language brings us to a place that is here and now.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Yeah. Mhmm. I guess, there doesn't need need to be any more words said from that to that with it, but there is there is this strong sense of intuition. Even on radio waves, we can hear that, and we can well, should I go out this this far? That our ancestors are already present.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Right? You can feel that we know that, and, like, they're following you around all the time, and I'm not taking any psychoactive drugs to stop that or any drugs at all. Right? And most people want that. So they they do their time with drugs to to try to get that, which is presence, but the drugs, the behavior is taking them away because they don't know how to be present.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Wow.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:Right. Can I just say too? I mean, and in today's world in today's world, that is being taken away. Our ability to be present. Our disconnection from the land, our disconnection from nature, it's it's not allowing us to be in relationship with silence because we are too scared of it.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:We have now become scared of it.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Right. The the the fear it always comes back to the fear in the society and the scarcity that something is always gonna get taken away from me because of our sense of ownership with with everything. With land, although, will they take my land? With with whatever it is, we we have demanded that, that that we hold on and we just accumulate more and more and more and more. So we have this fear that builds us builds in us.
Jonathan Gonzalez:They'll take away all.
Music:Mhmm.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Yeah. And and they did that in reverse type type of thing here. Go out with this thought. I want to thank you too for both being here, Capriolani and Jonathan. And to from an elder, I think I said this before, is that elder said, oh, you Europeans, you people came here because that that's who he was talking to at the time.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:You came here with your religions, and that's great. You came here with that. You you we're not going to touch you. That's yours. We respect that.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:You keep it. No one's going to take it from you. Then he said, he also came here with laws. So you will respect that. That's yours.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:You keep it. No one's going to take it away from you. No one's gonna touch you, but he said one thing I didn't see that you didn't come here with land, and we wonder how it this land became yours. And that's part of if you think about it, if you put censoring in it, freedom of speech, all these things that were laid upon us comes from someplace else. It I was gonna say something about Earth, but I think we're wanting final thoughts from you, Jonathan, you, Capilani, and then we're out.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Well, I'll just, again, thank you so much, for inviting this conversation and continuing going. We we all we all have so much respect for what's happening here within these in these, airwaves. Yeah. Right? But I'll say just as far as presencing, the intuition needs to be there for presencing to occur.
Jonathan Gonzalez:It's it goes back to that interweaving of of intuition with silence and with presencing, and then there then you'll be able to acknowledge what has always been there. So
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:And I'll just say with with today's world, with how how humans are experiencing their their unhealthy minds and disconnection from the earth. And with all that's going on, I would say that silence could be used as as a tool to, support that intuitive technology that we've had in us since the beginning of time? How can we really remember that in the face of AI and all all of the things that are continuing to overwhelm us and take away our memory of our intuitive nature. Let silence be the medium for that.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Mhmm. Kapiolani Leironol. Excuse me. Tsimshian, native Hawaiian and Filipino from the Haida. And I'd like to thank you for being here.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:It's an honor. Keep educating. I'd like to thank you, Jonathan Gonzalez, from the Taino and Chilenteco from Mexico for coming here. And you all are going back to your respective places, West Coast, but they're here now. They used to be residents here, and we're gonna miss you all.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And, I just wanna say thank you to you, Jonathan.
Jonathan Gonzalez:Thank you. I've cherished our time, and I'll I'll I'll miss you and, but I'll be back.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:That's alright.
Kapi'olani A. Laronal:And until we meet again, Kyo Kyo.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Awesome. Watching. I'd like to say thank you for joining us here again on First Voices Radio. My name is Tiokasin Ghosthorse.
