03/10/24 - Curtis Zunigha (Repeat Show)
Makes you such a threat? We choose the right to be who we are. We know the difference between the reality of freedom and the illusion of freedom. There's a way to live with Earth and a way not to live with Earth. We choose the way of Earth. It's about power.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Greetings and good day, and welcome, my relatives. I shake your hands with a good heart. It's good for all of us to be here. You are listening to First Forces Radio.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And Tiokasin Ghosthorse sending you greetings and strength from the Highlands of the Esopus or what Americans and Dutch call the Catskill Mountains. Regardless, it is the Highlands of the Esopus and the lands of the Munsee speaking Lenape. This is an all native hosted, all native produced First Forces Radio, and Liz Hill is the producer of First Forces Radio. And you can now hear us on Itunes, Apple Podcasts, Buzzsprout, Spotify, as well as First Voices indigenous radio dot org for archive, downloading, and listing.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Welcome to First Voices Radio, Curtis Zunigha, who's an enrolled member of the federally recognized Delaware tribe of Indians in Oklahoma.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And you can look up delaware tribe.org, And he has over 35 years of experience in tribal government and administration, community development, telecommunications, and cultural preservation. He's also an acknowledged expert on Delaware or Lenape culture, language, and traditional practices. Curtis is co director of cultural affairs the Lenape Center based in New York City, and the center promotes the history and culture of the Lenape people through the arts, environmental advocacy, social justice, and agricultural practices. The Lenape Center's work represents a return of the original indigenous peoples to their original homeland, Lenapehoking, which is New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. And you can also look up the history through the Lenape Center.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:That's the l e n a p e center dot com. And Curtis is a citizen of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and veteran of the US Air Force. I'd like to welcome you to First Voices Radio. It's an honor to have you here, Curtis.
Crutis Zunigha:One is she. And it's a honor and a privilege to be on the program today.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Thank you. Let's start with what I just read in your bio. It's called represents the return of the original indigenous peoples to this area that we broadcast First Voices out out of is near the the the town of Kingston, near the near the Catskill Mountains. And it seems to be that's the the northern part of the Zanape where you you come from New Jersey and and you're even down to Washington DC in areas like that, now how big that that nation is, the Lenape. But do you like like it says that you know the history and culture of that and what happened back then when the colonizers came to this land, and what's representing that return to this day, Curtis?
Crutis Zunigha:Well, yes. The Lenape. And in many cases, they're neighboring indigenous people like the Mohicans. And, the Lenape had a a strong presence in the homeland, which is kind of about where Kingston is now and start heading south. It takes you all the way down into the Delaware Bay.
Crutis Zunigha:So that picks up that important corridor between New York City and Philadelphia. And, you know, that all of that original homeland, the richness of the land, the spirit of the ancestors, the power of the ocean, and the freshwater rivers and streams combined, you know, is is that personifies who the Lenape are, the ancient spirit. They were known as, in our language, the grandfather people, one of the oldest known tribes in that. That. So with that legacy, then after European contact, the land and the people were a a target of ultimately the colonialism, the racist based colonialism, that is the story of of America today, forced us out of that very homeland, spreading in different directions over a period of a 120 years to ultimately places in Oklahoma, a a small reservation in Wisconsin, a couple of reservations in Southern Ontario, Canada.
Crutis Zunigha:So that collectively is where the Lenape were force forcibly removed to this day. I am living a life now where I am returning to the homeland. And just as an individual first, I'm returning to the homeland, and I'm getting connected to the spirit of the ancestors by just by getting out in the land, by standing at the banks of the water and offering tobacco and prayer and and contemplation and meditation to connect with the spirit of the ancestors after having been separated for generations. That's what I try to do, and I'm this isn't something I made up. We have Lenape or Delaware relatives that go back even just 50 years that were also doing this.
Crutis Zunigha:And I learned from their example, and I'm I'm getting the benefit of that. So, you know, that's that's my personal, benefit of returning to the homeland and trying to fulfill that connection with the homeland.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:What I'm really sensing is which is among a lot of indigenous peoples these days, the return to consciousness, basically. And when I think about your return, it's that consciousness of the earth that things after 500 years of being dormant that we are now in this, I wouldn't say renaissance because that's a European thing. Renewal will be another thing, but regeneration is that we knew in our prophecies that we would do this. Part of it as we're we're living that prophecy out, and it's hard for it to or a lot of people who think in a western context, duality of it is, this is the right thing or the wrong thing they wanna say, but this is the thing that's eventually going to happen anyway because it means a return to the ways of the earth. What do you think about that?
Crutis Zunigha:You're quite accurate. And they're the way I'm personally manifesting that return to the earth to be contemplative, to connect with the, not just the ancestral spirits, but the spirits of all creation. And the way I'm doing it is, for the last 6 months, I've been working in a garden. I've been growing corn, beans, squash, tobacco, traditional crops on the very land that the Lenape ancestors were doing the same thing 404 150 years ago when it was written by Dutch merchants and military governors that the Lenape were planting corn over there on that in that valley over there, they wrote. And here I am in the very same place bringing that practice back and using old seed Lanape corn.
Crutis Zunigha:Say, it's a blue flint corn. A beautiful blue corn when it you know, at harvest time. I'm and I'm connecting with everything that goes with it. Humbling myself, digging my fingers into the soil, rematriation of traditional seeds, putting those, there's there's repatriation getting things returned, but rematriation is taking those things, meaning these seeds, and putting them back into the ground and bringing forth that that life to regenerate practices and lifestyles and presence of the Lenape. And for me, Tiokusson, for me, it is physically, mentally, spiritually, a healing and wellness endeavor.
Crutis Zunigha:And as I've tried to share my story, I'm I'm a a microcosm, you might say, an example, a manifestation of this return to the homeland so that in seeking to achieve wellness and healing, I am also addressing the long term historic and generational trauma that our people took with them every step of the way on the trail of broken treaties, the the journey of of force removal. They are there was a collective and historical trauma carried by those people who were torn away from our earth mother, our homeland that we knew only knew for 1000 of years. And then we carried that with us. And by returning to the homeland, I'm connect I'm trying to get that healing and wellness back. That's the way I'm doing it.
Crutis Zunigha:And, it's working for me. I'm I'm doing a lot better than I was a year ago.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:From the earth getting the medicine with your hands, your feet, your whole being in in that earth that your ancestors come from, people don't realize that the value of that. I go back to the Black Hills. Right? But I'm out here because the voice of indigenous people seems to be a similar stories and but it's really renewable renewing to me, refreshing that I see all our peoples within Turtle Island doing that same thing no matter where they're coming from. But it's the it's the vast amount of respect that I see between native peoples.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So, you know, I came out here. I didn't really ask permission of the Lenape people, but I asked permission of the earth if I could stay here until I'm able to do that time and see that people and really get to know their history and things like that. So I can live here in a good way without feeling like I'm overusing the land or taking advantage of the land, but also to keep the story as straight as I can from what I hear from people like you about the Lenape. And I think that's an example that you are showing rather than teaching. And by showing, a lot of native people learn through example rather than instructional.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So as you would say, you're, the the land is showing you how that regeneration is happening here. And, also, when it comes to the history, you'd mentioned the trail of broken treaties. That history is not talked about. It's a short conversation. So can you talk about when this broken treaty's trails started to happen back in, what, 450, maybe even 500 years ago, 450 years ago?
Crutis Zunigha:Well, yes. It kinda depends on what incarnation we have been written about by first the Dutch, then the English, then the Americans, and the whole different forms of identification and recognition, over a period of time that informs people of our story, but through their lens, and and that lens gets smaller and smaller and smaller as time goes by. It's very important that we become aware of the full depth of and the truth of our history so that we can become empowered enough to return to the homeland, inform the colonizer of this history, which is not is I I'm not making this up. I'm going straight from the writings of the missionaries and the military generals and the merchants, and the the politicians, the colonial governors that issued scalp bounties on the Lenape in 1756 in Pennsylvania. You know, those kinds of things.
Crutis Zunigha:And we have a long history then of being recognized originally as the Lenape with the Dutch. And, in some of their first encounters and some of the most famous being, the establishment of a colony, an original colony, that ultimately was, on the island of Manahatta or Manhattan, New York. And, there's some people may be familiar with the infamous myth of the purchase of Manhattan by the Dutch from the Indians. Well, those Indians were the Lenape. And, it was a pure swindle.
Crutis Zunigha:And, the with that story in the through the lens of the of the colonizer, the they they got over on those dumb Indians and pushed them off the land, and then they took over. Then you have, after that, when the English came in and overpowered the Dutch and took control of all of that fur trade area that was right in the heart of our homeland. Then the English changed our name. That's when we became known as Delaware. And that whole river valley that all went down past Philadelphia, that was the Lenapehuittuk, the Delaware River Valley.
Crutis Zunigha:And the English colonial governor at the time in, at when they took over in the 18th century, the English colonial governor, sir Thomas West, was the he had a title of nobility. He was the third lord, d warre, warre. And morphed into Delaware. That's what the English began to call the river valley and the native inhabitants after their colonial governor, lord Delaware. Right?
Crutis Zunigha:So from that point on, that's our colonizer name. That's how we're recognized. And to even to this day, I'm I'm a enrolled member of the federally recognized Delaware tribe of Indians. We use that term Indians too. So I'm an Indian, and I don't I don't there's too many words of identification.
Crutis Zunigha:It's no insult to me, and I make no insult. I'm an Indian. You know? I'm officially a Delaware Indian. But this is an example of of colonialism when they take our identity, change our name, and quite frankly, on the trail of all of that were, attempts to either convert the heathen savage Lenape into Christian Delawares or to just wipe them off the face of the earth as your tail has taken their land.
Crutis Zunigha:I mean, that's the cold, brutal, honest, short term truth of the history, as you said, that's not being told. I'm trying to share this message and show these examples, But what is extremely important is that it informs us so that we can think about, what does that mean today? What it okay. So that's all in the past. I got people telling me, my ancestors might have done that, but I didn't do that to you.
Crutis Zunigha:Why should I be, you know, why should I have, you you say these things and make me feel guilty? Well, the answer is you're still living on stolen land. You are enjoying the benefits of colonialism. And I have lots of examples of how the Lenape, the Delaware, and collectively native people are still disenfranchised from the power that is the that the colonizer still holds over this country. And, well, I'll just stop it at right there.
Crutis Zunigha:We can
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:go back to how that came into play, so to speak, and how it also offered up a language of denial as you just kind of had the the example of people not accepting responsibility for the benefit of living on stolen land. But the originality of that, as we know, a friend of ours, Steve Newcomb, came has been studying the doctrine of discovery, and that comes into play just about every place we I step out the door, go to a local diner. You know, there's a dismissal of the native because I become an American to them. You know, that past is the past. But there's some somewhat of someone described it this morning as not knowing the history makes an example of you and I conversations to be short or not even talked about, but more or less in dismissal.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So there is the future now. Now Curtis Zuniga is coming home, so to speak. How are we as Americans going to receive that when when this other thing behind Curtis and even with Curtis is this whole idea of land back. That's so fearful if I was a westerner thinking, oh, you mean I gotta give land back? Because that recently somewhat semi happened in Oklahoma when the most of the tribes in Oklahoma were given jurisdiction on that land in Oklahoma.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So, see, these things are coming to awareness, I would say. And these these this awareness is something so much out of context that they cannot really define it yet, which they want to do. But our experience with definition is we're not struggling with it. We know who we are, that we know where we're going and where where why we're here and where we come from. And I think that view from the shore that I often say is not the same as the view from the ships, and I think that's the difference.
Crutis Zunigha:Well, I'm, I'm very blessed to be part of Lenape Center. I am a I am a co director, and Lenape Center, was started about 13 years ago now with the, it's an arts and a culture organization. I wanna make sure that everyone understands as they're listening to me that, first of all, I'm no longer I'm retired from the Delaware tribe. So I'm not bringing an official voice of my tribal council or administration. Right?
Crutis Zunigha:They got their own voice. I, when I now have been doing full time work with Lenape Center, we are trying to combat the erasure of the Lenape, bring a presence that is, at its at its core, one of culture, the not just the survivance of culture, but to allow our culture to flourish once again, And culture includes language. Language is the foundation of all things culture. You know? And and so this pushes me to become even a greater student of my culture and language so that I can put that into everything I do.
Crutis Zunigha:Even planting seeds and using the spirit of the ancestors and the language of the ancestors in my endeavors. I do all of this in returning to the homeland to fulfill the prophecies that you've referred to and to fulfill the call of the organization that I'm working for, Lenape Center, to return to the homeland, to take our place, our rightful place at the table of power, and to bring our traditional knowledge and the spirit of the ancestors to a modern discourse and conversation about the social condition today. Because as you said, we are bringing it back 500 years later, and we're dealing with issues today. And climate change and environmental degradation is one that I have extreme concern about. And I say that and this is something timely, my friend.
Crutis Zunigha:When I heard just 2 days ago, the governor of the state of New York, she was talking about, all of the snow out in Western New York and and the blizzards and the challenges with their, you know, their state budget to be able to fight against all of the snow and the ice and all of that that's going on. And I heard her use this phrase. She said, we, meaning the state of New York, we are in a war with mother nature to use that term. And I thought to myself, governor, why are you taking that attitude? I don't know if she was using a military euphemism to kinda talk about the how how intense the issue going on in in Western New York, around Buffalo, and all of that.
Crutis Zunigha:But to use that phrase, it it it hurt my feelings on behalf of the ancestors and on behalf of mother Earth here because, man, you don't wage war with mother Earth. You learn to live with. And, oh my goodness. That that's an example again of colonial attitudes in today's power institutions. So, you know, we just gotta keep bringing the message of the ancestors back and live it and let the manifestation of our actions honor the ancestors and the earth.
Crutis Zunigha:And hopefully, we will find a place at the table of power and more of these stories of of power, who we are as indigenous people, who we are as the Lenape back in Lenapehoking, the homeland. You know, hopefully, that will be listened to more. And, you know, I'd like to be able to make a difference. The difference I'm making right now is in my own health and wellness. And hopefully to that of, our beloved mother.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Talking so well, Curtis Zuniga. Thank you for joining us on First Voices Radio. I think about the ideas that you said about war with Earth, and I do know that is something that comes along with in a new world and new ideas. The Indians, the native people did they were ideologically viewed in this way as western world is because that's how they want to live. But it's not possible when you have attitudes, language that speaks of war with Earth as if they had to conquer it.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:But as you and I know that Earth, you know, Earth was gonna win.
Crutis Zunigha:All the time. Yep. All the time.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:No matter what we do, it's like, how do you how do you commit war against yourself? So to me, the the antagonism and the conflict that we speak in in English, in my language, there's no such thing as that. No. We're we accept a lot of things, but it's not the same come here and run over us. You're invited to live here, but you weren't invited to own the place.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:That that's what Earth is basically saying. So I think that what you mentioned that climate change, you know, I think that climate change needs indigenous peoples simply because of that war on Earth by the governor of New York. And the evidence is that sustainability and the relationship to the land is missing from that dichotomy of other humans coming here, the western people coming here, thinking that they could present it a property and own even the ideas that were at war with the earth. What do you think about indigenous peoples' climate change needs indigenous peoples?
Crutis Zunigha:Yes. That's been a part of my message too because we bring 13,000 plus years of a holistic relationship with the earth and all of creation. That's the all embedded in our culture and our identity, and our commitment and our obligation to take care of all of creation, to honor the gift of creation that we've had, to be able to still have language and culture to and those practices. That's what brings balance and harmony with the efforts of those who want to have a war with mother nature. And that's why it's important in when I talk about a return to the homeland.
Crutis Zunigha:And in my lectures and my writings and my, work with Lenape Center, it is to tell people the Lenape still exists in spite of near genocide. We have a beautiful culture and language and history and identity that we can still present, And we want a place at the table of power so that we can influence public policy today that doesn't think like that because we deserve to have a voice at the table of power and not just the rich white 1%. Now I'm it's resonating with commute some communities, the educational community, the faith community, people of color, you know, everyone is saying, yeah. You know, we want our voice heard too because we're still dealing with the remaining effects of colonialism in today's society, in health issues, poverty, economic disparity, and, yes, environmental degradation.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:And that's Curtis Zunigha representing the Lenape Center's work with the return of original peoples to their original homeland of Lenapehoking here in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. We'll return to the second half of First Forces Radio. My name is Teok Singh ghost horse.
Music:Movements.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Exodus by Bob Marley and the Wailers, the original composer, and Bob's son, Skip Marley, with his version. And the album is 1 Love music inspired by the film, the single, and a compilation of other artists adding to 1 Love, the 2024 release. This is First Voices Radio. My name is Tiokasin, Ghosthorse. Thank you for joining us here as we continue with interview with our Lenape friend, Curtis Zuniga, and is returning too to New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania area.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Where do we go with, you know, having to go to them, to their table, when when really they're avoiding the real round table of the earth. And going back to the doctrine discovery of of 1493 and papal bulls that I referred to earlier is that there's a certain amount of human rights and citizens' rights, which includes religious rights of freedom to to have religion or or or spiritual practice and weaker words. But there is this thing called natural responsibilities. The natural rights to a place is your people's memory. You do know where what to do.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Coming from there, the method of mechanics is that you cannot plan the land. You have to adapt your needs to earth rather than adapting the earth to our needs.
Crutis Zunigha:Oh, yes. That that's accurate. That's very accurate. Again, I'm learning this as a an obligation, a generational obligation to engage in this kind of conversation, to open it up with, again, the, the colonizers' descendants. Those that are still in the majority and hold majority power, over everything.
Crutis Zunigha:I'm hoping that certain people that I address these issues with will begin to be a voice for native people. And it's happening in the faith community. If you can make it a human rights issue, a religious freedom issue, I think that they're willing to be a a part of the chorus of telling our story. We need to be the ones telling our story, But I think getting allies, and I found that in the faith community, even the Christian, community, recognizes this. And then then you you kinda say, well, look.
Crutis Zunigha:If this is the belief of your Jesus Christ, your savior Mhmm. You know, what would Jesus do? Then, you know, think about that and put it into public policy. And, again, by having our voice at the table, we can start influencing these areas of our life where there are still disparities and division and polarization that's affecting us today. Not just lamenting about things that happened 100, 200, 300, 400 years ago.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:We're talking with Curtis Zuniga as a co director of Lanapisani. Let's talk about the anthology that you released, I think it was last year or even earlier part of 2022. But, you know, a lot of this goes through the poetry, through history, the governor's island, you know, what happened up north and erasures that we we hinted at, some artwork. And it's it's a compendium of of various voices. And and I think that this book that I'm looking at, an anthology, which edited by Joel Baker, yourself, and Hadrian Kummins.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Well, Joel Joel Whitney, actually, you're part of this. But I think part of it is relearning what indigenous peoples are coming to New York and Manhattan, as you say, and they're going to the UN. I personally think a lot gets lost at the UN, and our involvement is that it becomes too much information when it's very simple. This is Lenape land. This is how they do things here.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So when I when my experience was at the UN, it was overwhelming. Why do all peoples come to this island? Maybe there's something that's either fulfilling or not, But I think part of it is is reading books like this to see maybe there's just filling in in the empty spaces that we need to.
Crutis Zunigha:Yeah. Well, first of all, you mentioned the Lenapehoking anthology, and I, I wanna make one point clear. I I was not involved in editing that. That was my 2 co directors, Joe Baker and Adrian Kummins, that work with Joel Whitney at the Brooklyn Public Library to edit this anthology, which is a combination of all of the, historical essays. And, yes, I did write one called the forced removal of the Lenape.
Crutis Zunigha:Steve Newcomb, wrote a chapter in there. There's there's several in there that tell, incredible stories about this history. But then as you mentioned, there's also art, poetry. There were some beautiful physical exhibits of the men's shoulder bags. The the bandolier bags that were so much a part of our culture, expression of culture for 100 of years.
Crutis Zunigha:That was the first Lenape curated exhibit in New York City. The first, Joe Baker, our executive director and also an enrolled member of Delaware tribe here in Oklahoma. He's the one that curated that exhibit. And it was a rousing success even even with, COVID spiking at times, earlier this year, last winter, actually. And then this this anthology was released in September.
Crutis Zunigha:But it it it's, I'm hoping that more copies can be made available. It's very thought provoking, but it it is the beginning of the work that Lenape Center is doing to raise awareness of who we are, not just in the past, but the rich culture that we have to present and then and that we are a living culture. And in doing so then, the erasure that was made against the Lenape people, This is a way of combating that to bring back our presence. It is reaping benefits when people see this, read this, understand this, and want to learn more. Yes.
Crutis Zunigha:It does bring fear into the hearts of those that wanna hold on to land and and power and money and all that that is represented in on the island of Manhattan, the, center of trade and commerce. But, you know, it was the center of trade and commerce for the Lenape people long before the Europeans ever showed up. So, I'm I'm very pleased, that, the Lenapehoking anthology, is out there. We're we're hoping to make more copies available. And, I'm I'm glad that you, checked it out, and, you saw some familiar names there yourself.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:I've never really looked at it. You know? Of course, I go back to the removal. And why would somebody remove a a beautiful way of life, especially from this beautiful land? And, of course, I can point fingers, but what I look for is not the hope, but what's required of Lenape people as indigenous peoples that 1 in page 10191 in Lenapehoking, an anthology, part of the removal connotation was is that in 17/87, Pennsylvania militia attacked a group in Lenape who had returned to harvest crops planted the year before.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Even that, you know, ambiguous statement, but really had returned to harvest crops planted the year before. So this is the whole idea no matter what is happening to the Lenape, that you keep coming back to harvest plants that were planted generations before. So that that's where I come in and, you know, and I think, well, all these things that were committed the Dalmati people are still coming back such as yourself. And this is sort of the what I want, not just a an American dream story, but something that is that is inevitable. That's what we all do anyway and we should be doing.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So have respect to ourselves, the earth, so we don't say we have a war against Earth. But we've been calling it out. This way of living is actually the war against Earth because of the extraction measures it goes to.
Crutis Zunigha:Well, I'm I'm part of that return. I can hardly wait for the spring so that I can plant more seeds and, see how I can, bring forth, these the plant life that benefits our people by putting wellness and then good intention into my work. I hope to derive that from the benefit of the foods that come out of it and honoring the ancestors. And, by the way, this this past summer, the the, spirit of the bear, came out of the forest and got into my blue corn. And, I think they were tasting that, blue corn during this milk stage in August, and and they were enjoying.
Crutis Zunigha:I'm sure they were, like, in bare spirit talk. They were telling each other, wow. We haven't had this stuff in a long time. Tastes good. Somi, Wingon, it tastes good.
Crutis Zunigha:And, you know, they kinda had their own memory. You know what I mean? They're they're a spirit too, a powerful spirit. So, you know, I I kinda had a truce with them. You know?
Crutis Zunigha:You can have that much corn, and I want this much, and let's see if we can work out something. And so I've gotta deal with that again. But as you said, it's mother nature that dictates how it will be. And if you learn to live in balance and harmony with that, the you won't have some of the mental, stress, the existential threat of having to be at war with mother nature. That's what causes a lot of problems.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So before we go, I wanna ask sort of a provocative question if that if I could. The question there I would have is, yes, recolonization, colonization, recolonization, but how far have we come as indigenous folks when it comes to we can look look at the world, but look at the United States. We can look at New York itself. We can look at the Eastern United States, Western have North America. How far have we come to really reindigenizing this land?
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Or is it really not about reindigenizing, it's about the land knowing who is still treating her indigenously?
Crutis Zunigha:Look. It's been 50 years, 50 years plus since the American Indian Movement, which I think was part of an awakening. But in just 50 years, we've made small steps, and I think it's important to bring that cultural thinking into younger generations as part of the obligation of passing it down. But I think that we've got a long, long way to go to indigenize communities, educational curricula, and again, the social condition. And we need to get people to start wanting to work for their people instead of working for the colonizer.
Crutis Zunigha:Now that's just my own I'm gonna it's rather frank talk, but, if you can go out and get an education like I've done and bring my, degree in economics, to to the table, but also doing it in Indian country, That's, that's what I'm hoping a younger generation will do. But, yeah, we're we're just now awakening and kind of, you know, flexing our presence. We gotta quit thinking like, however a colonized or so called conquered people.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Did I miss anything in this short interview? Because I'm sure throughout the year, the years here, we're gonna keep bringing you back or some of your, colleagues and friends from the Lenape Center and those from Oklahoma, even going up to Ontario, I think, to bring those folks down here and really understand the land that we live on. And not that we exist here, but we live here now. And learning how to live in a in a place takes time. And while we're not listening to the indigenous peoples, we're still kinda planning how to live here.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So I think when you you talk about the prayers that I go deep and you're putting your hands in the the corn and then the bear comes along and then that that, oh, that tasted that one for a while. That's vintage. That's what it's about. So I'd I'd like to just put it leave it right there and give you a last thought.
Crutis Zunigha:I wanna thank you for the privilege of, being on this program and to share some of our stories. We have many more, both as Lenape Center, myself personally and as Lenape Center. And again, there are many voices representing the Lenape people. So perhaps in the future, we can have, more opportunities to share our story. And again, it is a great privilege to speak with you today.
Crutis Zunigha:And, thank you very much for your program, and what you do in Indian country.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Well, thank you, Curtis.
Music:White collar conservative flashing down the street,
Music:pointing their plastic finger at me.
Music:White collar conservative flashing down the street.
Music:Pointing that plastic finger at me. But it's alright. It's quite a life.
Music:White collar conservative flashing down the street,
Music:pointing their plastic finger at me.
Music:White collar conservative flashing down the street,
Music:pointing their plastic finger at me. But it's alright. It's quite a life. I'm digging it myself.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:If sixties were nineties by the beautiful people with Jimi Hendrix singing, playing the backgrounds. You've been listening to First Forces Radio. My name is. I'd like to thank you all for joining us this year, this past year. And this time, we're gonna start it off with where I am in the Catskill Mountains here in Lower New York and living among the Munsee Lenape people, Munsee speaking Lenape people, and watching their return as much as I can understand.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Yeah. Just just, blending in what I can with the knowledge that I come from, with those knowledges that maybe I've not been paid attention to. Short conversation and very much different knowledge than the one I'm speaking to you with at in, and I often think about how and why. If all this education I have received in western degrees, and if I was to compare them or basically standardize them to, in this case, the Lakota, how much of that can be applied, and can it withstand being reinterpreted into Lakota? So what we do is we take the native people's knowledges, and we turn them around to the advantage of English and the western conceptualism, the philosophies, the religions, the science, And we look for the proof, because that's the only way you can own is that there's proof, a deed, a title, when that proof is always changing.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:So it is the way of traditional knowledge for me, because that reference of sustainable knowledge, that reference point of sustainable knowledge goes back beyond any written history, because oral history stays alive in the language. And why would such an intelligent so called intelligent civilization try to rid this land of many intelligent languages. So beautiful. What removes beauty? It's certainly not beauty that remains that removes beauty, needless to say.
Tiokasin Ghosthorse:Again, I'd like to thank Curtis Zuniga for joining me here on First Voices Radio, and you.
